4 Comments Already

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brasky Said,
June 24th, 2009 @9:23 pm  

“as evidenced in the separation of church and state provision in the Constitution.”

There is no such provision in the US constitution. Rather, there is an establishment and free exercise clause. Neither of which mention a “wall of seperation between church and state.”

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Brian J OMalley Said,
June 24th, 2009 @9:50 pm  

Brasky,

Good observation. Specifically, Amendment 1 of the Constitution says, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the exercise thereof;”

It was subsequent court interpretation of the Constitution that coined the phrase “separation of church and state.” I admit to being a little lose with my wording, however from a practical standpoint, it’s a relatively minor issue. Perhaps it would have been more accurate to write, ” … the exclusion of the state from church affairs.”

I’d like you to concede though that I never said anything even remotely close to the phrase “wall of seperation between church and state.” (your quotes) It’s unlikely the founding fathers would have believed that a representative’s religion wouldn’t influence a representative’s perspective, but it’s equally specious to argue they would have approved of any single religious perspective in government.

They did afterall ensure the plurality of religion in America by making it the first line of the Bill of Rights. Further, their own religious perspectives, as the main body of the article points out, were not terribly religious at all. Their guiding principle was rational thought.

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November 5th, 2009 @11:58 am  

Hello:

I read your column with great interest, however, the religious affiliations and beliefs of the Founders is very different from what you portray. In fact, your piece implies a false prominence of deism dominating the philosophical underpinnings for the framing of the Constitution. According to Wikipedia, some of the 1787 delegates had no affiliation. The others were Protestants except for three Roman Catholics: C. Carroll, D. Carroll, and Fitzsimons. Among the Protestant delegates to the Constitutional Convention, 28 were Church of England (Episcopalian after the Revolutionary War was won), eight were Presbyterians, seven were Congregationalists, two were Lutherans, two were Dutch Reformed, and two were Methodists, the total number being 49. Some of the more prominent Founding Fathers were anti-clerical or vocal about their opposition to organized religion, such as Thomas Jefferson (who created the “Jefferson Bible” and Benjamin Franklin. However, other notable founders, such as Patrick Henry, were strong proponents of traditional religion. Several of the Founding Fathers considered themselves to be deists or held beliefs very similar to that of deists.

To see the professions and religions affiliations of the framers (those who helped create it and those who signed it), visit http://www.usconstitution.net/constframedata.html.

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Brian J OMalley Said,
November 6th, 2009 @10:09 am  

Donn,

Thank you for an interesting and informative post.

However, I stick by what I wrote; specifically the line, “The theoretical fabric of U.S. Constitution most likely owes much more to the ideals of the Enlightenment period than to any religion or lack thereof,” which supports the sub-title of the piece, “Architects of American Democracy Neither Religious Nor Atheist.”

Deism, which is more philosophy than an organized religion, arose out of the Enlightenment. Thomas Paine’s work, “Age of Reason,” is a core element of Deism, just as his work “Common Sense” was a central set of political beliefs for the revolution.

My purpose in writing the article was to point out that there were many factors in the construction of our government, and Deism and the logical approach to life engendered during the Enlightenment period were certainly highly influential factors. This is evidenced by the very influential people who you pointed out were proponents of both Deism and logic.

However, nothing happens in a vacuum, and your post is completely valid as well. The beliefs of the others must also have contributed significantly. Thank you for that very helpful information.

I most strongly object to those who either claim that ours is a “Christian nation,” or an atheistic one. It is clearly neither in and of themselves.

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